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#1 May 22, 2020 18:12:50

gloukes
Registered: 2020-04-25
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Focusrite Scarlett Solo 3rd Gen - Delay using WASAPI

I am using Win 10 with Focusrite Solo. I can hear metronome and guitar if I use WASAPI option in setup. I have “Play back my audio checked” and there is a short delay in playing the guitar that makes it difficult to play in time. If I use Direct Monitor on the Solo then there is an echo but it is easier to play in time. In other software like Amplitube 4 and Ableton, I have to use the Focusrite ASIO option to get the Solo to work correctly.
Using any of the other Windows audio options in jammr doesn't work and just gives me distortion.

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#2 May 23, 2020 08:56:52

stefanha
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Focusrite Scarlett Solo 3rd Gen - Delay using WASAPI

Hi gloukes,
Please select the “Windows WDM-KS” audio system, connect to a jam session, and then post the technical information displayed when you go to Help | Show Log. You mentioned the sound was distorted, so this probably won't fix the sound issue but it will provide information useful for understanding the issue.

If you want to play with WASAPI for now, you can enable direct monitoring on the soundcard and disable “Play back my audio” in jammr's sound settings. That way it will feel responsive on your end, although the audio will be slightly delayed for others.

Thanks!

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#3 May 23, 2020 17:36:22

gloukes
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Focusrite Scarlett Solo 3rd Gen - Delay using WASAPI

This is my log when I select “Windows WDM-KS”, input:“Focusrite USB (fniusbwave_44)”, output: “Analog Out (fniusbwave_44)”. I can hear the metronome loudly (louder then when I use WASAPI) but my guitar is quiet, delayed and completely distorted when played. Also before starting jammr I can hear my guitar through the Focusrite in my right headphone. My Focusrite has 2 input channels and 2 output channels so this may be why I only hear the guitar in right heqadphone before loading jammr. If I use the “Windows WDM-KS” setting in jammr then I no longer hear my guitar in the right headphone after exiting jammr until I actually restart my computer. Also my computer crashed twice after exiting jammr with a blue screen. I didn't notice the exact error codes but something about bad pool call and port clr, I think.

May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: jammr 1.2.8 (44212a597aad70c42bf8fe74aaf4e112d7c81e02)
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: CPU architecture 32-bit little-endian
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: OS: Windows 10
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Qt 5.7.0
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: PortAudio V19.6.0-devel, revision 396fe4b6699ae929d3a685b3ef8a7e97396139a4
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Host API: MME (5 devices)
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: “Microsoft Sound Mapper - Input” (0)
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Channels: 2 in, 0 out
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Default sample rate: 44100 Hz
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Input latency: 0.09 low, 0.18 high
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Output latency: 0.09 low, 0.18 high
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: “Focusrite USB (Focusrite USB Au” (1)
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Channels: 2 in, 0 out
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Default sample rate: 44100 Hz
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Input latency: 0.09 low, 0.18 high
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Output latency: 0.09 low, 0.18 high
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: “Microsoft Sound Mapper - Output” (2)
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Channels: 0 in, 2 out
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Default sample rate: 44100 Hz
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Input latency: 0.09 low, 0.18 high
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Output latency: 0.09 low, 0.18 high
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: “Focusrite USB (Focusrite USB Au” (3)
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Channels: 0 in, 2 out
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Default sample rate: 44100 Hz
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Input latency: 0.09 low, 0.18 high
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Output latency: 0.09 low, 0.18 high
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: “Speakers (2- High Definition Au” (4)
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Channels: 0 in, 2 out
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Default sample rate: 44100 Hz
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Input latency: 0.09 low, 0.18 high
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Output latency: 0.09 low, 0.18 high
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Host API: Windows DirectSound (5 devices)
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: “Primary Sound Capture Driver” (5)
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Channels: 2 in, 0 out
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Default sample rate: 44100 Hz
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Input latency: 0.12 low, 0.24 high
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Output latency: 0 low, 0 high
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: “Focusrite USB (Focusrite USB Audio)” (6)
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Channels: 2 in, 0 out
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Default sample rate: 44100 Hz
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Input latency: 0.12 low, 0.24 high
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Output latency: 0 low, 0 high
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: “Primary Sound Driver” (7)
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Channels: 0 in, 2 out
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Default sample rate: 44100 Hz
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Input latency: 0 low, 0 high
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Output latency: 0.12 low, 0.24 high
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: “Focusrite USB (Focusrite USB Audio)” (8)
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Channels: 0 in, 2 out
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Default sample rate: 44100 Hz
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Input latency: 0 low, 0 high
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Output latency: 0.12 low, 0.24 high
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: “Speakers (2- High Definition Audio Device)” (9)
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Channels: 0 in, 2 out
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Default sample rate: 44100 Hz
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Input latency: 0 low, 0 high
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Output latency: 0.12 low, 0.24 high
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Host API: Windows WASAPI (3 devices)
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: “Speakers (2- High Definition Audio Device)” (10)
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Channels: 0 in, 2 out
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Default sample rate: 48000 Hz
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Input latency: 0 low, 0 high
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Output latency: 0.0026667 low, 0.01 high
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: “Focusrite USB (Focusrite USB Audio)” (11)
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Channels: 0 in, 2 out
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Default sample rate: 44100 Hz
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Input latency: 0 low, 0 high
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Output latency: 0.003 low, 0.01 high
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: “Focusrite USB (Focusrite USB Audio)” (12)
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Channels: 2 in, 0 out
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Default sample rate: 44100 Hz
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Input latency: 0.003 low, 0.01 high
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Output latency: 0 low, 0 high
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Host API: Windows WDM-KS (8 devices)
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: “Focusrite USB (fniusbwave_44)” (13)
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Channels: 8 in, 0 out
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Default sample rate: 44100 Hz
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Input latency: 0.01 low, 0.0853333 high
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Output latency: 0.01 low, 0.0853333 high
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: “Analog Out (fniusbwave_44)” (14)
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Channels: 0 in, 8 out
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Default sample rate: 44100 Hz
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Input latency: 0.01 low, 0.0853333 high
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Output latency: 0.01 low, 0.0853333 high
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: “Headset (@System32\drivers\bthhfenum.sys,#2;%1 Hands-Free AG Audio%0

;(HD 4.50BTNC))” (15)
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Channels: 0 in, 1 out
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Default sample rate: 8000 Hz
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Input latency: 0.01 low, 0.0853333 high
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Output latency: 0.01 low, 0.0853333 high
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: “Headset (@System32\drivers\bthhfenum.sys,#2;%1 Hands-Free AG Audio%0

;(HD 4.50BTNC))” (16)
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Channels: 1 in, 0 out
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Default sample rate: 8000 Hz
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Input latency: 0.01 low, 0.0853333 high
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Output latency: 0.01 low, 0.0853333 high
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: “Headphones ()” (17)
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Channels: 0 in, 2 out
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Default sample rate: 44100 Hz
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Input latency: 0.01 low, 0.0853333 high
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Output latency: 0.01 low, 0.0853333 high
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: “Speakers (HD Audio Headphone/Speakers)” (18)
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Channels: 0 in, 2 out
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Default sample rate: 44100 Hz
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Input latency: 0.01 low, 0.04 high
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Output latency: 0.01 low, 0.04 high
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: “Microphone (HD Audio Microphone 2)” (19)
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Channels: 2 in, 0 out
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Default sample rate: 44100 Hz
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Input latency: 0.01 low, 0.04 high
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Output latency: 0.01 low, 0.04 high
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: “Headphones ()” (20)
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Channels: 0 in, 2 out
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Default sample rate: 44100 Hz
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Input latency: 0.01 low, 0.0853333 high
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Output latency: 0.01 low, 0.0853333 high
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: PortMidi devices:
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: “Microsoft MIDI Mapper” (OUT)
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: “Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth” (OUT)
May 23 2020 16:19:54 DEBUG: Checking for updates from https://jammr.net/static/latest-windows.txt
May 23 2020 16:19:56 DEBUG: Update checker finished, current “1.2.8” latest “1.2.8”
May 23 2020 16:20:02 DEBUG: Logging in as “gloukes” at https://jammr.net/api/tokens/gloukes/
May 23 2020 16:20:03 DEBUG: Logged in successfully
May 23 2020 16:21:01 DEBUG: Trying Pa_OpenStream() with sampleRate 44100 inputLatency 0.0058 outputLatency 0.0058 innch 2 outnch 8
May 23 2020 16:21:01 DEBUG: Input device: Focusrite USB (fniusbwave_44) (Windows WDM-KS)
May 23 2020 16:21:01 DEBUG: Output device: Analog Out (fniusbwave_44) (Windows WDM-KS)
May 23 2020 16:21:01 DEBUG: Stream started with sampleRate 44100 inputLatency 0.01 outputLatency 0.01

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#4 May 23, 2020 17:58:30

gloukes
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Focusrite Scarlett Solo 3rd Gen - Delay using WASAPI

Another blue screen crash - the reason for failure was noted as “portcls.sys”. I ran Windows Update and will see if this happens again.

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#5 May 23, 2020 22:06:14

gloukes
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Focusrite Scarlett Solo 3rd Gen - Delay using WASAPI

I found this thread re PortAudio that may be about a similar issue with Focusrite: https://lists.columbia.edu/pipermail/portaudio/2017-June/001200.html

For some reason PortAudio, using WDM-KS, thinks my Solo (which has 2 inputs and 1 stereo output) has 8 inputs and 8 outputs and ends up trying input channel 2 and output channel 8. Perhaps that is the source of the distortion when using WDM-KS.

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#6 May 24, 2020 03:12:23

shawnb
Registered: 2020-03-28
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Focusrite Scarlett Solo 3rd Gen - Delay using WASAPI

I have both a Focusrite Gen 1 2i4 & a Gen 3 18i20.

For both, the WDM drivers are too noisy and generate too many artifacts in Jammr. Sometimes they go nuts. It ain't pretty.

In my experience, the Focusrite WASAPI drivers work best with Jammr.

I don't have a Solo, and I am not sure exactly how it works, but… I suspect the “Direct Monitor” feature on the Solo hard-wires your chan 1 input to your chan 1 output, which will cause a loop with Jammr… The problem is that the current version of Jammr is hard-wired to always use chan 1 for inputs & outputs…

So… This is what I think might work with the Solo…
- Use Wasapi for the cleanest signal.
- Disable the Direct Monitor, to avoid a loop.
- In Focusrite control, for the 1/2 mix, disable Software DAW playback, the OTHER potential source of a loop here… You don't want the Jammr signal going right back out to 1/2, which is Jammr's input…
- Do your headphone mix in Focusrite Control.
- If you can choose your chan 1 hardware input in your headphone mix, de-select “Play back my audio” in Jammr. You don't need it twice…
- (If this doesn't work for some reason, you can try using “Play back my audio”, but then, you would need to mute your hardware inputs on your headphone mix to avoid hearing yourself twice with a delay….)

Hope this helps…

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#7 May 24, 2020 08:08:50

stefanha
Registered: 2012-11-11
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Focusrite Scarlett Solo 3rd Gen - Delay using WASAPI

Thanks gloukes,
I usually recommend the Focusrite Scarlett product family and test jammr with a Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 1st Gen myself. So these issues come as a surprise! I have ordered a Solo 3rd Gen so that these issues can be investigated.

In the meantime staying with WASAPI is probably the best option. The next jammr release will improve latency on some devices, I will post an announcement in the News sub-forum when it's ready for testing.

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#8 May 24, 2020 08:16:28

stefanha
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Focusrite Scarlett Solo 3rd Gen - Delay using WASAPI

One more thing regarding Focusrite Scarlett devices: I have found that changing the system sound settings before launching jammr can affect audio performance. It may help to adjust the system sound settings (e.g. reducing buffer size/latency).

On my 2i4 1st Gen device the latency was high inside jammr until I changed the audio buffer size in the system sound settings. It's possible that this is different with 3rd Gen devices, they seem to have added more software (Focusrite Control).

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#9 May 24, 2020 08:20:52

stefanha
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Focusrite Scarlett Solo 3rd Gen - Delay using WASAPI

gloukes
I found this thread re PortAudio that may be about a similar issue with Focusrite:
ttps://lists.columbia.edu/pipermail/portaudio/2017-June/001200.html
For some reason PortAudio, using WDM-KS, thinks my Solo (which has 2 inputs and 1 stereo output) has 8 inputs and 8 outputs and ends up trying input channel 2 and output channel 8. Perhaps that is the source of the distortion when using WDM-KS.

Yes, I started that thread. Unfortunately we never got to the bottom of it. Now that I have ordered a Solo it will be possible to investigate this in detail.

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#10 May 24, 2020 11:54:26

gloukes
Registered: 2020-04-25
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Focusrite Scarlett Solo 3rd Gen - Delay using WASAPI

Thanks shawnb and stefanha for your help. The Solo 3rd Gen is a simple interface with a single stereo output. Focusrite Control cannot be used to change the output routing but can adjust the input buffer size and sample rate. The Direct Monitor switch hard-wires both input 1 (XLR) and input 2 (line/instrument) to headphones/speakers. My input buffer size is set to 64 and sample rate is 44.1k but I can play with these to see if that will reduce any latency using WASAPI.

As mentioned, I can uncheck “Play back my audio” in jammr and use Direct Monitoring with WASAPI and then find out if my latency messes up the others in a jam session.

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